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James Pritchard

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10 interview secrets every junior solicitor should know when applying for a new role

NQ Solicitors’ Ian Roberts has advised thousands of applicants within the legal sector over the years and is in no doubt what factors make the difference between success and failure. In this blog, we set out Ian’s top 10 interview secrets for solicitors moving firms upon qualification.

You’re about to qualify as a solicitor after years of hard slog but all that effort could be in vain unless you can secure the right role at the right firm. The good news is you’ve got an interview at a firm you’d love to work for. Here are 10 tips that will help you dazzle your interviewers and get that all important offer.

1. First impressions count

According to various studies, you have c. 17 seconds to make a good first impression, so don’t waste them. The following are basics but shouldn’t be overlooked. Start with a good firm handshake, (but don’t do a Donald Trump). Make steady eye contact (but don’t stare), smile and say “pleased to meet you” in a confident and sincere tone and you’re off and running. The goal is to make a connection and start building a rapport with your interviewer(s).

2. Commit yourself

As Wayne Gretzky said: “You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.” Or, if you’d rather not take your inspiration from an ice hockey player, think of it this way. If you’re not totally committed to getting an offer, you may as well not show up for the interview. Firms want people who they can see are excited to work for them. If you’re dialing it in, they’ll see through you.

3. “So, why do you want to work here?”

This question is asked at almost every interview and the answer is so important, yet amazingly, this is the question that catches candidates out more than any other. Do your homework on the firm. Answer the question by reference to what you have learned and give specific examples. What it is about the work the firm does, its culture, its reputation and its story that appeal to you. Show why you would be a good fit and why you’re precisely what they’re looking for.

4. “Have you applied to stay with your current firm post qualification?”

The interviewers know how the NQ system works. They are more than likely to ask questions like the above and others along the same lines. “Where you are in the process?” “How many and what seats have you applied for?” “What would you do if they offered you a role?”

These can be tricky to answer. You may be waiting to hear from your training firm and would prefer to stay there if they make you an offer. If so, you won’t want to make it evident to the interviewer that they are a back up.

Alternatively, you may be pretty sure that your training firm doesn’t want to keep you on or may have decided that your future lies elsewhere. But you won’t want to say this if you feel it will shed you in a bad light.

Rule number one, don’t lie. First of all, it’s inappropriate for a solicitor and secondly, there’s a good chance you’ll get caught out. Remember, the legal world is a small one.

What you can say is that you’re aware that it’s a highly competitive process at your training firm and you would be foolish not to see what other opportunities are out there.

You may also give candid reasons why the firm you are interviewing with appeals to you in ways that your training firm doesn’t (without slagging them off). This may perhaps be because of its size, the work it does, its work/life balance, etc. Be subtle and frame all your answers positively.

5. Your CV got you here, but it won’t get you the job

Interviewers are interested in the person behind the CV, not the CV itself. The interview is about you as a person and, to a certain extent your technical knowledge, not your qualifications. What matters now is how you express yourself, how well you will fit in at the firm, what you’ve learned during your training contract and what your ambitions are.

6. Be prepared to talk about anything on your CV

We mean anything. If you say you like the theatre, then be prepared to tell your interviewers what the last three plays you saw were and when you saw them. Or, if you say you speak basic German, be prepared to answer “Warum möchtest du hier arbeiten?”. I’ve known candidates get grilled for 20 minutes or more on seemingly throwaway bits of information on their CVs leaving them wishing they hadn’t put them on there in the first place. It’s your CV, you have to own all of it.

7. Show you are at the right end of the NQ spectrum

We all know that some trainees ‘get it’ from day one. They understand how to run a file, deal with clients, get their work done without drama and are in tune with the firm’s ethos and commercial objectives. They may not be the trainees with the most impressive CVs, but they will make the best lawyers. Your interviewer knows this too and is digging to find out if you are one of these or one of the others. The lame ducks. A good CV but no grasp of what the job is all about. It’s a spectrum and you need to show you are at the right end.

8. Give specific examples of what you have done

Don’t speak in generalities, be specific. Paint a picture, tell a story, put some meat on the bone (pick your own cliché if you like). The interviewer needs to be sitting there imagining you doing the things you’re talking about and picturing you doing the same for their firm. (Remember, while being highly specific is essential, be careful not to give away client confidentiality).

9. Always ask questions

Pick up on points they have mentioned during the interview to show you’ve been listening. Ask questions that demonstrate your interest in the firm, your understanding of the work they do, their culture and the types of clients they have. Check out the LinkedIn profiles of the people interviewing you (beforehand, not on your phone in the interview) and ask about their career path and anything especially interesting or relevant. Ask about future training to show your desire to become a well-rounded lawyer and what your prospects of rising through the firm would be if you do well.

10. Don’t play hard to get

At the risk of sounding like a Facebook meme, “Don’t play hard to get, play hard to forget”. Leave the interviewer in no doubt that you want the job. Be enthusiastic though not gushing. Be keen but don’t grovel. They hold most of the cards and want to employ someone who is genuinely motivated to work for them and do well. Show them you are.

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Mixed results for latest firms to announce retention rates

The latest set of qualification announcements has seen the overall autumn retention rate, (excluding NQs retained on fixed-term contracts), decrease from 84.62% to 83.65%.

Among the firms to announce below average retention rates was Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner, which will be retaining 14 out of 19 final seat trainees (76%). Of the five trainees who were not retained, two accepted roles elsewhere while the remaining three were unable to secure positions due to a fiercely competitive NQ recruitment market.

While a retention rate of 76% will never be regarded as a stellar result, BCLP will not be too disappointed given the impact of Covid-19 and the firm’s reliance on high-end commercial real estate work.

Chloe Muir, BCLP’s Senior Graduate Recruitment & Development Manager said ‘Congratulations to our 2020 autumn cohort who overcame a tumultuous final few months. We are delighted to have attracted and retained such a high standard of talent. We wish them all the very best of luck for the future.”

Other firms to perform ‘below par’ (or ‘over par’ for you golfers out there) were Simmons & Simmons, which will be keeping on 13 of 15 qualifying trainees (72%), with one being retained on a fixed-term contract and Charles Russell Speechlys, which is retaining 19 of 26 qualifiers (73%), including two on fixed-term contracts.

Two firms to post above average retention rates were City firm Bird & Bird, which is keeping on 16 of 18 qualifying trainees (89%), and US powerhouse Shearman & Sterling, where 10 of its 11 NQs (91%) have secured permanent positions, (eight will be staying in London and one each will be based out of the firm’s Abu Dhabi and Singapore offices). 

Lastly, I’m sure the top brass at regional firm Weightmans would hate the firm to be described as ‘average’, but their retention rate was exactly that – the firm are keeping on 16 of 19 qualifiers for a rate of 84%.

It’s been an interesting couple of weeks for Weightmans which announced a 6% rise in turnover for the previous financial year (despite Covid headwinds ruining the month of April), just five days after launching a redundancy consultation as part of a long-term strategy to restructure its business.

We’ll keep tabs on any other announcements as the autumn retention season draws to a close and will keep a particularly close eye on the results announced by Gateley and any other firm that chose to furlough trainees or push back qualification dates to the depths of what could be a long winter.

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Spring retention round-up: Slaughter and May is top performing magic circle firm

With the 2020 spring retention announcements well underway, here’s the first of our round-ups of how the top firms are performing in the season of new beginnings. 

Spring is in the air, (or would be if it ever stopped raining), and that means only one thing. Anxious trainees across the country are finding out whether they are being kept on as NQs by their training firm.

Magic Circle

As ever, we’ve been keeping a beady on how the top firms are performing. And where better place to start than with magic circle firm Clifford Chance, one of the first out of the blocks this year. The Canary Wharf-based outfit offered 34 of its 40 qualifiers NQ jobs and all accepted, a score of 85%. The firm was characteristically mum when making the announcement and did not comment on the results.

This year’s qualifying cohort is the smallest for many years and 11 fewer than last spring’s group. In autumn 2008, the firm took on its highest ever number of trainees, no less than 74.

This spring’s 85% figure compares to its 90% return this time last year and 87% last autumn. The newbies will start on a basic salary of £100,000 and will also be in line for a discretionary bonus.

Fellow magic circle firm Slaughter and May has posted another in a string of solid results. It is retaining 29 of its 31 qualifiers for a score of 94%, which is almost identical to its return of 97% last spring and 93% in the autumn. These new lawyers will start on £92,000, which could rise to over £100,000 depending on bonus.

Freshfields meanwhile has attained a score of 90% by making offers to 36 of its 39 qualifying trainees, with all but one accepting. Craig Montgomery, training principal and trainee development partner, said the results reflect the firm’s “ongoing commitment to recruiting, retaining and developing top talent for the future”. They will start on £100,000, and there is no bonus.

Another magic circle firm, Linklaters, has 41 trainees qualifying this spring and all but five will be staying with the firm (88%). They too will enjoy a salary of £100,000, which represents a combined basic salary and a discretionary performance bonus. In its last two rounds of results, the firm posted figures of 91% and 80%, and this season’s return is another positive score after a slight blip of 73% in autumn 2018.

Last of the magic circle firms to report this season was Allen & Overy, who have revealed a score of 81%, with 30 of 37 trainees signing on as NQs. This is a slight dip compared to the firm’s retention score last autumn of 89%. This spring’s newly qualifieds will receive a package worth £100,000, comprising salary and what is described as “a sign on bonus”.

Other Highlights

Elsewhere, Addleshaw Goddard has 11 qualifiers across its London, Leeds and Manchester offices and all are taking up NQ roles with the firm (100%). John Joyce, the firm’s managing partner, said the quality of work produced by the eight women and three men in the trainee group has been “exceptionally high and we are therefore very pleased to have been able to offer them all positions within their preferred teams”.

City firm Trowers & Hamlins is keeping on eight of its 10 qualifying trainees from its offices in London, Manchester, Birmingham, Exeter, Abu Dhabi and Dubai. Those in London will start on £68,000, compared to the £44,000 being paid to their fellow NQs based in the regions.

The two qualifiers (out of three) staying on at the London office of US firm Ropes & Gray will be on no less than £130,000 plus a bonus, putting them on a par with their counterparts at Latham & Watkins, and Weil Gotshal & Manges. In contrast, the four final seat trainees (out of five), being retained at Mayer Brown will be on £90,000.

We will update with further spring 2020 retention news as and when it comes in.

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Should you move firms for a better work/life balance?

Are you thinking of moving firm for a better work/life balance? If so, what factors should you consider before taking the plunge?

It’s not often we get the chance to quote Dolly Parton in a blog, so we couldn’t miss the opportunity when it arose. “Don’t get so busy making a living that you forget to make a life,” advised the American country singer and actress. It’s a sentiment many lawyers are taking to heart as they strive for that seemingly elusive work/life balance.

Much of this is driven by the fact that the 9 to 5 working day Dolly famously sang about is a distant memory, certainly for junior lawyers. They spend an average of 10 hours and 15 minutes in the office every day, according to a recent survey by Legal Cheek. Junior lawyers at Jones Day have the longest average day at 12 hours and 9 minutes, with those at Kirkland & Ellis only three minutes behind. The lawyers with the shortest day (of firms surveyed) are at BLM, who work (a mere) eight hours and 58 minutes a day.

But are the average numbers of hours a day a reason to consider changing firm? That depends on the individual. If you are arriving at the office before 9am and not leaving until after 9pm each working day, that might get demoralising as it leaves little time to spend with friends and family or to pursue outside interests.

Billable hours

The reality is more likely to be that there are periods when you are working intense hours on a particular case or transaction, and this is followed by a quieter period with shorter days. Perhaps, when you think about, you enjoy this variety and the adrenaline rush of a frantic period as much as (or perhaps more) than the less hectic periods.

A better indication of the number of hours you’ll be putting in and the stress you will be under is the billable hours target. K & L Gates expects its lawyers to put in 2,088 billable hours a year, which is at least 288 hours more than their counterparts at magic circle firms Clifford Chance and Allen & Overy, for example.

Remuneration

Bear in mind too that the firms with the greatest demands in terms of hours tend to be amongst those who pay the most. Kirkland & Ellis NQs may rack up 12-hour days, but they are also on c. £150,000 a year compared to the £44,000 BLM pays its London-based NQs and the £30,000 it pays in the regions.

The bottom line is that often (though not always) pressure and long hours means a higher salary. The question is, how low you are prepared to go for less anxiety and fewer hours?

Why not check out our (August 2019 blog) on salary uplifts for NQs?

Perks and other factors

Another factor to consider are the perks you would miss out on, such as healthcare, gym membership and subsidised staff restaurants. Plus, there are some things you can’t put a price on. What’s the morale like at the firm? Is there a shared sense of purpose and do you have good friends there? What is the quality of work like and what sort of experience are you getting?

Are you growing as a lawyer and what opportunities are there for learning and development or working in different offices, perhaps overseas? Is it worth sticking it out until you have the necessary experience you need before moving onto the next stage of your career?

Remember too that moving to a smaller, seemingly less demanding firm doesn’t necessarily guarantee that you will be under less pressure or enjoy it more. You may end up working for a particularly difficult boss, and although you will be at your desk for fewer hours, the time you spend there may not be as rewarding. You might merely be changing job and walking into a different type of stress for less money.

Can you move departments or roles?

When you think about it carefully you may realise that you like the firm’s culture and people, you don’t mind the hours too much, but it’s simply the work that’s getting you down. Or perhaps it’s the client-facing side of the role. Consider whether there may be other opportunities in the firm, such as moving to a different department or becoming a professional support lawyer with little client interaction.

Whatever you decide, don’t jump ship on a whim, wait until you have given it careful thought from every angle. Or, as Dolly put it: “Find out who you are and do it on purpose.”

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Should junior lawyers learn to code?

Skeleton coding

To code or not to code, that is the question? Many lawyers believe learning to code is a waste of time and will do nothing to help them succeed as a lawyer. Others argue that coding is an essential skill in an industry finally embracing technology. Some even predict that before long, all lawyers will be coders. Who’s right?

Let’s start by agreeing that law tech is not a fad. Admittedly, the legal profession is not renowned for being forward thinking, but I think we can safely say the penny has finally dropped. Technology is altering the way lawyers work by simplifying the way documents are produced, speeding up research, transforming due diligence and disclosure exercises, and reducing administration costs. While nothing is certain, it’s a reasonable bet that law tech is going to continue evolving and will do so rapidly. 

That’s all well and good some lawyers say, but why does this mean lawyers need to code? Arguments against it range from “Lawyers would be better off learning to use Word and Excel properly” to “Lawyers should learn to work with coders, not become coders” to “Lawyers should spend their time learning specialised legal skills that can help them deliver a better service to clients”.

What is coding?

Before giving the flip side to these arguments, we should take a step back and look at what coding is. In brief, coding is a language used to get a computer to behave the way you want it to. The skills needed for coding share a lot of those required for being a lawyer such as being able to express yourself logically and without ambiguity. The important thing though is that coding is a language.

Lawyers who are expert coders

US lawyer Jason Morris argues in an article in Medium that some lawyers need to be expert coders and that they are needed now. “There are legal services which we clearly need, which cannot be effectively provided by a lawyer who cannot read and write, at an expert level, the language in which the relevant rules have been expressed,” he says. “We cannot get by in a world that operates in one language and lawyers who only speak another.”

What about the rest?

What about the other lawyers who are not required as expert coders? What do they need to know?

Slaughter & May’s Knowledge & Innovation Manager Emma Watson believes “lawyers may not need to be coders, but they will need to be digitally literate”.

“By having an understanding of the link between computers/coding and the legal sector,” she says, “lawyers will be able to make the most of advances in legal tech, but more importantly they will be able to understand the art of the possible. Lawyers with a greater digital literacy will be better placed to advise their clients on the impact of disruptive tech.”

It’s the crossover between soft skills (human and legal) and technology that’s important. Steve Jobs was, as usual, ahead of his time when he said tech alone is not enough: “It’s technology married with liberal arts, married with the humanities, that yields us the results that make our heart sing.” I doubt law, even combined with tech, will ever make anyone’s heart sing, but you get the point.

Lessons from Deep Blue

Former world chess champion Garry Kasparov explains this concept brilliantly in his book about Deep Blue, the first computer chess programme to beat a world champion (Kasparov himself). Kasparov subsequently started a new form of chess involving humans and computers. What he found was that a human and a computer would always beat a computer on its own.

More interestingly, he found that a computer plus a mediocre chess player with a good understanding of how to make the most of the computer’s capabilities would beat a much better chess player who was not as adept at using the computer’s capabilities.

The analogy with lawyers is obvious.

Many of the larger law firms have bought into this and several are offering training contracts and graduate schemes with a focus on technology. Among these are Clifford Chance, which has launched a training contract specifically focus on law tech called Ignite. Ignite that will take on five trainees in autumn 2021.

Another is Addleshaw Goddard, which offers a seat to trainees in the firm’s in-house innovation and legal technology team as part of their training contract rotation.

Addleshaw Goddard’s Kerry Westland, head of innovation and legal technology, expresses what no doubt a lot of junior lawyers think when she says: “People who are growing up with tech are future clients. And we, as lawyers, need to train our new joiners to understand that.”

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Pressure mounts on SRA over the new SQE ‘super-exam’

Exam

The pressure on the SRA over its new ‘super-exam’ has intensified in recent weeks, with the Junior Lawyers Division warning that it could damage the credibility of the profession and the Legal Services Board listing a number of concerns that the SRA needs to address before it gets approval.

The Junior Lawyers Division (JLD) has warned that the proposed SQE “poses significant risks to the standing and credibility (both domestically and internationally) of the solicitor qualification”.

The warning came in a letter at the beginning of November to the Legal Services Board (LSB), the regulator which needs to give final sign off to the new exam before it comes into force in September 2021.

The JLD, which represents 70,000 law students, trainees and solicitors up to five years’ PQE, has already voiced numerous concerns over the new exam, as we have written about here and here.

Multiple-choice

In a letter sent to the LSB’s Chair Dr Helen Phillips, the JLD’s Amy Clowrey said that by moving away “from the academic, essay-based means of assessment of legal knowledge” to multiple-choice questions in SQE1 would negatively affect “the quality of people entering the profession”.

In her letter, Clowrey referred to criticism of the SQE raised by Clyde & Co, Linklaters and the University of Oxford in a consultation about the exam. Clyde & Co is on record as saying it has “strong concerns” about whether legal knowledge can be tested by multiple-choice questions and fears individuals entering the profession “may do so knowing substantially less law”.

Similar reservations have been expressed by the University of Oxford, which said multiple-choice questions are “of no value in determining whether an individual would be able to give competent advice in situations in which the law is unclear”. 

Linklaters has been even more damning, saying: “We fundamentally disagree that the proposed SQE is a robust and effective measure of competence.”

Key issues the SRA needs to address

It seems these criticisms are not falling on death ears, as the LSB has itself expressed some disquiet about the SQE. The LSB has said it will be sending to the SRA a list of “key issues” that need to be addressed in its second application, which is due in July/August next year.

Chris Nichols, the LSB’s Director of Regulation and Policy, has said it is important that the SQE provides “a fully valid assessment of competence and that quality, and perceptions of quality, are not compromised”.

Nichols has also responded to previous worries expressed by the JLD and others about students being mistreated during their qualifying work experience noting that there is an “overall lack of any quality assurance of the process by the SRA”.

Dr Helen Phillips has herself chimed in, saying: “The board is aware of the strength of feeling around the SRA’s introduction of the SQE, and we were pleased to have an opportunity to discuss the next steps for the process. We know that there remain a number of concerns for stakeholders, and our overarching desire to proactively gather and understand such views carries over into any discussion of the SQE.”

Will the SQE be too difficult?

Meanwhile, Linklaters has also questioned whether the new exam is going to be too difficult, and warns that if it is, there will be knock-on effects for firms in terms of both recruitment and reputational damage.

Linklaters’ Head of Global Training, Patrick McCann, has said: “The SRA is basing SQE1 on the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Scheme and that has something like a 50% fail rate. Currently, the law degree fail rate is about 2% and the Legal Practice Course fail rate is about 10-20%, and for firms like Linklaters it’s 0-2%.”

McCann has said a high fail rate would cause huge complications for City firms: “We recruit for spaces and if we’re left with spaces because our recruitment round doesn’t make it through that causes all sorts of problems.”

He also fears that “the reputational risk if you’re the law firm that doesn’t get students through the exams is going to be huge”.

But Sarah Hutchinson, managing director of legal education provider Barbri has played down these anxieties and said: “Typically when a new exam is introduced, you would expect the examiner to give the benefit of the doubt to the students and it is not in the Solicitors Regulation Authority’s best interests to produce dramatic fail rates. After all, they want the SQE to succeed.”

It seems certain that analysis of the new SQE (both positive and negative) will continue to play out in the legal press as we head towards 2021. We’ll update you with the latest news as and when it comes in.

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